Specific Goal for Private Lessons?

Must one have a specific goal when taking Private Lessons?

They are expensive, and I am just dancing for fun and to build confidence, have no desire to compete, have no dance partner, and do not really dance outside of my privates.

I have been dancing for just 5 1/2 months with a private teacher. I started out in a studio focusing on beginners, did an intro styles package, found the instructor too technical, talked too much and danced too little, so transferred school and found new private teacher.

At the start, I did one group class at that first school and found it extremely boring as the men did not know what they were doing. One man was particularly rude, correcting me harshly. He was pretty lousy, too!

For that reason, I left that school and got turned off with group lessons, waste of time, I thought, to partner with men who I thought would make me "unlearn" what I paid for in my privates.

At the new school, my private instructor was much better in that he went straight into dancing and really focuses on teaching you as much as possible in the lessons. Not much time is spent talking, it is mostly dancing.

Five and a half months down the line, I find that I am paying for eight lessons a month (now that I have the time I figure why not, till I start my new job) and it was his idea that I dance for the bronze medal test which is a couple of months away.

When I started with him he asked what my goals are and I said it is just to dance for fun. Perhaps to structure the lessons somewhat and make me more interested, and to chart my progress, he suggested dancing for the medal.

I was intimidated by this at first but now I see what it's simply a way of categorizing one's level. Well and good.

Now going back to my privates, I still do not have a specific goal and sometimes I wonder what about it fascinates me so much (Latin Ballroom).
I love the grace and technique, the exuberance of the music and the "Latino Fire" within that makes the dance look good.

However outside of the privates I have no real opportunity to dance with anyone anywhere and I just practice by myself at home. I'm too intimidated to go to a social and wondered, what happens to all the women who take private classes who are like me? Do we really have to have a goal?

I totally enjoy my lessons and love what i am learning and the physical confidence I am gaining. Are there many out there like me, or do most people out there taking privates have goals toward competing?

Cheery said:

what happens to all the women who take private classes who are like me? Do we really have to have a goal?

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Over time, your teacher will convince you that doing the studio showcases or Pro/Am competition will be a good idea.

Cheery said:

However outside of the privates I have no real opportunity to dance with anyone anywhere and I just practice by myself at home. I'm too intimidated to go to a social and wondered, what happens to all the women who take private classes who are like me? Do we really have to have a goal?

I totally enjoy my lessons and love what i am learning and the physical confidence I am gaining. Are there many out there like me, or do most people out there taking privates have goals toward competing?

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Welcome to DF Cheery!

Well in the US (not so much in the Australia as we've been told by our Aussie contingent), pro-am - where an amateur dancer is partnered with his/her teacher - is very big. I would venture to guess that most compete, but like you some do not.

Perhaps you already have a goal, but just have not set it firmly. It sounds like you want to enjoy the process and challenge of learning to dance. To be the best dancer you can be?

(I'm a leader.)

You asked a lot of different things.

Social dance experiences are a topic all their own. You can have great ones, awful ones, and everything in between. It seems not uncommon for early experiences to include some disappointments; but sticking it out through those can often turn out to be worthwhile.

I think many might agree that it's easier to have fun at social dances, group classes, and competitions, and even to find a suitable amateur partner, if you build up some relationships in the dance community -- but if that's your goal, you have to get out there and participate, first.

All of that is IMO quite apart from the question of, "Should one have a goal for a private lesson?". For me personally, the no-brainer answer is, "yes." My advice is to have a clear sense of what you want (in exchange for your time and your money!), but also to have a healthy willingness to adjust your focus as you become aware of different possibilities over time.

Gorme said:

Over time, your teacher will convince you that doing the studio showcases or Pro/Am competition will be a good idea.

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You mean some of those people were "convinced" by their teacher? I wondered why they compete, but now it's becoming a bit clear that people do more challenging things as they learn, perhaps they started out like me not even wanting to compete.

DL said:

(I'm a leader.)

I think many might agree that it's easier to have fun at social dances, group classes, and competitions, and even to find a suitable amateur partner, if you build up some relationships in the dance community -- but if that's your goal, you have to get out there and participate, first.

Yes I realize that there is no way I will find a partner to dance with if I don't get out there! It's just a bit unnerving imagining what a social would look like, people sitting around waiting to be asked?! Ulk. I wish they called them "practice dances" instead of "socials," it would be less intimidating, more casual...

I think I am "losing the plot" a bit by taking private lessons and having no one else to dance with, other than my instructor.

I tried going to group dance classes of the same level but some of the men were just "out of it" and I got more confused. On the other hand, a couple of them were more advanced than me and I even stepped on their feet (this was a few months ago though, and my teacher says I have improved!).

I just told myself that if I don't go to group lessons, then all I'll know is how to dance with a guy who is of the level of my teacher, and I won't learn how to follow other leads.

However my teacher told me not to go to the group lessons because "we're already covering that in the private lessons."

What do you make of this?

What would be ideal is if I found a guy who has similar goals and is looking for a partner to dance with also, we could even split the fee for the private lessons. (How can I find one, help!)

All of that is IMO quite apart from the question of, "Should one have a goal for a private lesson?". For me personally, the no-brainer answer is, "yes." My advice is to have a clear sense of what you want (in exchange for your time and your money!), but also to have a healthy willingness to adjust your focus as you become aware of different possibilities over time.

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I suppose what I want in exchange for my time and money is to become a confident and assured dancer who looks good on the floor and whom other can even admire (?) for my dancing.

THis is totally out of my usual activity, and dancing has built my physical confidence tremendously. Sometimes during my lesson I look in the mirror and can't even believe that is me, doing those things!

(Sorry, I have posted this again because it came out in italics as part of the quote I was quoting!)

Yes I realize that there is no way I will find a partner to dance with if I don't get out there! It's just a bit unnerving imagining what a social would look like, people sitting around waiting to be asked?! Ulk. I wish they called them "practice dances" instead of "socials," it would be less intimidating, more casual...

I think I am "losing the plot" a bit by taking private lessons and having no one else to dance with, other than my instructor.

I tried going to group dance classes of the same level but some of the men were just "out of it" and I got more confused. On the other hand, a couple of them were more advanced than me and I even stepped on their feet (this was a few months ago though, and my teacher says I have improved!).

I just told myself that if I don't go to group lessons, then all I'll know is how to dance with a guy who is of the level of my teacher, and I won't learn how to follow other leads.

However my teacher told me not to go to the group lessons because "we're already covering that in the private lessons."

What do you make of this?

What would be ideal is if I found a guy who has similar goals and is looking for a partner to dance with also, we could even split the fee for the private lessons. (How can I find one, help!)

Cheery said:

Yes I realize that there is no way I will find a partner to dance with if I don't get out there! It's just a bit unnerving imagining what a social would look like, people sitting around waiting to be asked?! Ulk. I wish they called them "practice dances" instead of "socials," it would be less intimidating, more casual...

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A lot has been said on that subject on DF. Have you seen any of those threads?

At any rate, you know, if you go to them thinking of them as practice dances, guess what -- ta-da, they're practice dances!

I think I am "losing the plot" a bit by taking private lessons and having no one else to dance with, other than my instructor.

I tried going to group dance classes of the same level but some of the men were just "out of it" and I got more confused. On the other hand, a couple of them were more advanced than me and I even stepped on their feet (this was a few months ago though, and my teacher says I have improved!).

I just told myself that if I don't go to group lessons, then all I'll know is how to dance with a guy who is of the level of my teacher, and I won't learn how to follow other leads.

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That all seems sensible to me. Over time dancing with more and less experienced partners in group classes may seem more manageable. As for stepping on feet: once in a while a social dance partner or classmate apologies for stepping on my feet; I invariably tell her not to worry because (probably like most guys) I've stepped on *far* more feet than have stepped on mine.

However my teacher told me not to go to the group lessons because "we're already covering that in the private lessons."

What do you make of this?

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Sure, the material is probably the same. You're probably seeing it in more detail with more personal focus in the private lesson than in the group class. Personally, I think I get more value from private lessons by combining them with group classes. It's more time on the floor, with a variety of rotating partners of different experience levels, with a teacher to answer questions. Plus, it's a way to get to know fellow dancers one might see at social dances or other dance events.

As an aside, what will the group class be like? Lots of technique? Lots of steps? Lots of Q&A? Advanced? Repetitive? Frequent rotation of partners? Lots of couples who don't rotate? My opinion: it depends on the group, sometimes more than it does on the teacher.

(So why did your teacher tell you that you didn't need the group class? It's very hard to say without seeing the whole context personally. My advice is that if you'd like to try doing both lessons and classes, do both. If a teacher seriously objects strongly to that and makes much of it, it's probably worth trying to figure out why.)

What would be ideal is if I found a guy who has similar goals and is looking for a partner to dance with also, we could even split the fee for the private lessons. (How can I find one, help!)

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Much has been said on that subject on DF, as well. But for a brief answer, getting to know fellow dancers in classes and at social events probably can't hurt.

Cheery said:

You mean some of those people were "convinced" by their teacher? I wondered why they compete, but now it's becoming a bit clear that people do more challenging things as they learn, perhaps they started out like me not even wanting to compete.

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I definitely was "convinced" into competing by my teacher. I was somewhat abstractly interested in dance competitions in general, but never considered myself to be capable enough to actually do it. So I needed that initial push.

In general having some sort of a goal may give you a certain amount of enthusiasm towards dancing. Many people may lose the "drive" to improve when they haven't gotten a goal to work towards. But then again seems like you do have at least SOME goals like "gaining confidence" and "having fun" so that's good.

And I'd say going to socials/practice sessions would not be a bad idea for someone who is doing this for fun....otherwise why do ballroom dancing in particular.... Isn't one of the thrills of doing Latin/Ballroom dancing is to be able to lead/follow different partners?

DL said:

A lot has been said on that subject on DF. Have you seen any of those threads?

Sure, the material is probably the same. You're probably seeing it in more detail with more personal focus in the private lesson than in the group class. Personally, I think I get more value from private lessons by combining them with group classes. It's more time on the floor, with a variety of rotating partners of different experience levels, with a teacher to answer questions. Plus, it's a way to get to know fellow dancers one might see at social dances or other dance events.

As an aside, what will the group class be like? Lots of technique? Lots of steps? Lots of Q&A? Advanced? Repetitive? Frequent rotation of partners? Lots of couples who don't rotate? My opinion: it depends on the group, sometimes more than it does on the teacher.

(So why did your teacher tell you that you didn't need the group class? It's very hard to say without seeing the whole context personally. My advice is that if you'd like to try doing both lessons and classes, do both. If a teacher seriously objects strongly to that and makes much of it, it's probably worth trying to figure out why.)

Much has been said on that subject on DF, as well. But for a brief answer, getting to know fellow dancers in classes and at social events probably can't hurt.

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Thank you for your reply. I think you're right about getting more value from the Privates by going to Group classes also. I'm going to forget about what I did before and just try it again. Besides that was several months ago so I think I can now catch up. I am going to a group class tonight which is being taught by another teacher than my Private Instructor.

(I think I have to tell him though, don't you think?)

I have no idea why he told me not to go to the Group Class. I dunno, do you think he thinks I may go for fewer Privates if I do that? (I actually might, if it is beneficial to me to do so, why not!) Is that why? He didn't say why and I didn't ask.

(If I do tell him, when I see him later this week, I'll say it is because it does me good to follow other leads, that's valid, isn't it).

The group class I went to before was like this: All the men on one side of the room. Women on the other side. First, the instructor shows the men their steps/leads. The men then do it about two or three times.

Then the women get shown theirs steps, and just like the men, repeat the steps about three times.

Then, it's "Ok, grab a partner, let's do it together" and we form a circle. We do it with one partner about two times, then rotate. Then the music comes on and it all happens a bit faster.

Sometimes the instructor stops everyone and corrects mistakes. He also will get someone from class to demo the correct way.

This continues throughout the class time, more new steps, more routines, back in a circle, then back to two sides of the room for more steps.

I was going to a Salsa class regularly and sometimes it is so repetitious. That can be good so you get it from so many tries, at times it is boring because you don't feel like you are learning more.

One thing I do not like about my studio is that anyone can go to any class anytime. I often see some guys going to Levels 2, 3 and 4 of the same dance. I am not sure if they pay for all or if they go to lower level classes to fill spaces for the women.

Maybe they just want to practice. I imitated this practice for a time and decided to go back to a lower level for one class.

It is irritating because there is no continuity and it is so obvious that some people are too advanced or of a lower level. However, sometimes this can also be advantageous, for example, I'll get to "gate crash" a class this evening I never went to before, hoping that I'll be up to that level since I do Privates.

It was good to go to Group Classes before because I got a feel for what it is like with different guys leading. Some of the more interesting looking men were terrible dancers and the less interesting looking ones turned out to be great leads. (Hm, is this a lesson for real life? Ha ha).

Cheery said:

Thank you for your reply. I think you're right about getting more value from the Privates by going to Group classes also. I'm going to forget about what I did before and just try it again. Besides that was several months ago so I think I can now catch up. I am going to a group class tonight which is being taught by another teacher than my Private Instructor.

(I think I have to tell him though, don't you think?)

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For me it would come up anyway because I would have a question. "I tried such and such in a group class and the result was thus and so -- what's the Right Way?"

Seeing the same thing taught by different people can be enlightening. It can sometimes also be confusing, so it's probably best to pick a particular teacher to help you resolve apparent discrepancies.

I have no idea why he told me not to go to the Group Class. I dunno, do you think he thinks I may go for fewer Privates if I do that? (I actually might, if it is beneficial to me to do so, why not!) Is that why? He didn't say why and I didn't ask.

(If I do tell him, when I see him later this week, I'll say it is because it does me good to follow other leads, that's valid, isn't it).

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Personally, I don't think you need any other reason than wanting to try a group class again.

As for how many private lessons you take -- it's your time, your money, your decision. Don't spend more than you're comfortable spending, don't take more lessons than you feel are of benefit to you; but do have an open mind when you hear advice from teachers and fellow students that adjusting your private lesson schedule relative to your other dancing might have some benefit.

The group class I went to before was like this:
....

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Seems straightforward enough.

I was going to a Salsa class regularly and sometimes it is so repetitious. That can be good so you get it from so many tries, at times it is boring because you don't feel like you are learning more.

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You may find at different times that you like repetition, or that you like seeing lots of steps, or value other things about group classes.

One thing I do not like about my studio is that anyone can go to any class anytime. I often see some guys going to Levels 2, 3 and 4 of the same dance. I am not sure if they pay for all or if they go to lower level classes to fill spaces for the women.

Maybe they just want to practice. I imitated this practice for a time and decided to go back to a lower level for one class.

It is irritating because there is no continuity and it is so obvious that some people are too advanced or of a lower level. However, sometimes this can also be advantageous, for example, I'll get to "gate crash" a class this evening I never went to before, hoping that I'll be up to that level since I do Privates.

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IMO everybody benefits when advanced students go back to work on more basic material -- the teachers, the advanced students, new students, everyone -- so long as it's clear to all that the beginner classes teach material accessible to the beginners, and the later classes will not be significantly slowed for newbies.

Group classes won't cater to you personally; that's what private lessons are for. But that doesn't mean that group classes have to be frustrating. It just means that you have to figure out for yourself how to approach them in a way that will be productive for you. Group classes and private lessons are simply two different things; hopefully if you give them time you'll start to get an idea of how to use them to complement each other.

In my experience, if you drop in on harder classes it can be helpful to have some friends there who have observed and respect your earnest efforts to practice and learn, with all the partners you encounter in classes.

I can identify with your disappointment with group classes. I have been dancing for three years. In the beginning, when I was much less skilled than I am now, I was happy going to group classes and learning all these new steps. I didn't mind that my partners were oftne as inept as I was! But as I have gotten better, I have had less patience for partners that were not up to my level. I have found this has also happened with my other friends who have been dancing for awhile. The more skilled you get, you want a better partner.

I have also recently found a new dance teacher who is simply fabulous. After dancing with him, no one seems good enough! So this can be an impediment to social dancing, where you have to deal with a varity of partners at different skill levels. It's amazing, but when a man is a good lead, you feel like you are a great dancer. If he isn't a good lead, you feel like you are a klutz! I am not saying women don't make mistakes, just that the man's lead is very important.

When I started out, I could never have imagined that I would want to compete. Now, social dancing just doesn't do it for me anymore. Yes, you need to have a goal for your private lessons, something to work towards. If I just wanted to social dance, I could probably stop my lessons now. I know enough to get by in most settings. But, surprisingly, I want more. It's really amazing.

Also, you will find in group classes, even at higher levels, that the skill level of the students (both men and women) will vary greatly. This is especially so at franchise studios, where students are "passed on" to higher levels after awhile, whether they are ready or not. It's also true that not everyone has the same talent or ability for dance. I go to group lessons to learn new steps that I can practice with my instructor. But at this point in my development, I could just as well learn new steps or routines from my instructor and by pass the classes altogether. It just depends on where you are in your learning process.

DL said:

Group classes won't cater to you personally; that's what private lessons are for. But that doesn't mean that group classes have to be frustrating. It just means that you have to figure out for yourself how to approach them in a way that will be productive for you. Group classes and private lessons are simply two different things; hopefully if you give them time you'll start to get an idea of how to use them to complement each other.

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That's what I've found. Group classes are good for learning a step and practicing it with different people. However, in group classes, the instructor just doesn't have the time to give individual instruction. In a private, since more attention is on you, more can be covered, but you don't get the experience with different people, which is good for working on lead/follow skills.

mkp said:

I have also recently found a new dance teacher who is simply fabulous. After dancing with him, no one seems good enough! So this can be an impediment to social dancing, where you have to deal with a varity of partners at different skill levels. It's amazing, but when a man is a good lead, you feel like you are a great dancer. If he isn't a good lead, you feel like you are a klutz! I am not saying women don't make mistakes, just that the man's lead is very important.

When I started out, I could never have imagined that I would want to compete. Now, social dancing just doesn't do it for me anymore. Yes, you need to have a goal for your private lessons, something to work towards. If I just wanted to social dance, I could probably stop my lessons now. I know enough to get by in most settings. But, surprisingly, I want more. It's really amazing.

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So do you think it is bad to dance only with your Private Teacher? I have only been dancing under six months and he is the only one I dance with. So you can imagine, that is I am always disappointed with Group Lessons.

I also experienced what you said, that when a man is a good lead you really do dance much better, and when he is a lousy lead, you look worse! ?As I sat and chatted with one of the men after a group class, I told him that I could follow the routines with some men (him included) and with others, I could not. He said, "Bad lead?" I said, "Yeah, blame the guy!"

(However i have read in another post that men who are good leads, when dancing with good followers, also look better, and when dancing with lousy followers, look worse too in their dancing!)

I was struck by what you said that when you started out you had no desire to compete, and that now, social dancing just doesn't cut it for you anymore.

I had no desire to compete at all either and have not even social danced at all, however, I am a person of very high standards in whatever I do. I am only a beginner but I come from a culture where dancing is very prevalent and natural to the people, so I am used to seeing good dancing. While I am only new to this, I would like to see myself reach a level which I myself would admire in others.

Also for me, dancing is kind of a breakthrough to build physical confidence and ease and acceptance of my body (something I never did my entire life).
So while I am doing it for fun I also want to do it because it is not easy and there is constantly something new to learn.

I haven't even gotten so far in Salsa (Level 3) but I am getting bored with it already. It seems like a lot of turning and corny moves, compared to Latin Ballroom (Int'l) which I am learning in my Privates.

I am constantly challenged by what my teacher shows me to do, and when I succeed in doing it I feel great. I don't even feel that from Salsa (however my Salsa is only Group Lessons, it is too easy I think for Privates) (Sorry fo the Salsa bashing here, it is definitely a fun dance but I feel that Latin Int'l Ballroom has so much more technique to learn which is why it is great).

So here's my question for you, do you think I will reach that point that I will also want to compete, in order to progress?! Yikes, I never thought of that. Whew, thank God I am only six months into this! That seems a long way off still. :raisebro: