"The Dinzel System"?

D

Dave Bailey

Active Member
Anyone heard of this?

I got this from a description of an event:
They teach the Los Dinzel method which gives the man and the woman an equal role in the dance making it a true conversation and adds spontaneity and sparkle to every tango
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After a quick search I found this:
The Dinzel system has been created after a solid 30 years period of research around the basics of the Argentine tango. The system is built on how tango was danced at the period of 1850th. It was created out of a need to express oneself. Tango became a dance of improvisation where nothing was decided in advance, rather it was created in that moment it was danced by two equally active dancers.
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I'd be interested to know how this works, and if anyone's got experience of it?
 
I believe that Jenny & Ricardo Oria studied with Los Dinzel, although they don't mention it on their website. However, they might be able to help with more information about the "method".
 
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Dave Bailey said:
Anyone heard of this?

I got this from a description of an event:


After a quick search I found this:


I'd be interested to know how this works, and if anyone's got experience of it?
Click to expand...


The reviews on Amazon of their book:
Tango : An Anxious Quest for Freedom
are not very complimentary.

And I'd always run a mile whenever I see teachers using words like pedagogical as they do on their website.

It's slightly amusing to see them claim that they are teaching how tango was danced in the 1850s. How do they know? People still dispute and discuss whether there was any african influence on the dance.

I'm sure they are well-intentioned, indeed an interview I found seems to confirm that. But they do seem to have a show tango background . . .

 
bordertangoman said:
You are interested in this!!!; aint it a bit hippyish for you?
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"interested in" <> "agree with" or even "like the concept"... ;)

From what I know, the whole "danced by two equally active dancers" concept doesn't really work. It's a lead-follow dance, not a lead-lead dance. However, if someone can explain how this works, or if someone has experience of this, I'm prepared to have an open mind on the topic.

Well, "open" by my standards.
 
Dave Bailey said:
"interested in" <> "agree with" or even "like the concept"... ;)

From what I know, the whole "danced by two equally active dancers" concept doesn't really work. It's a lead-follow dance, not a lead-lead dance. However, if someone can explain how this works, or if someone has experience of this, I'm prepared to have an open mind on the topic.

Well, "open" by my standards.
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For me, it doesn't work.

We have a teacher locally here teaching an active participation by the lady - he's teaching a favourite partner of mine and now she's starting to do what you and I would know in jive as sabotage. So far it's only slowing down the cross ending of an ocho cortado so my trick is to do less of them at present.

But it does disturb the flow and rhythm of the dance and my preference is against it. Surely there's a huge contribution that a good lady makes without encouraging her to change the vibe?

I'm hoping it's a fad that will pass.
 
Dave Bailey said:
"interested in" <> "agree with" or even "like the concept"... ;)

From what I know, the whole "danced by two equally active dancers" concept doesn't really work. It's a lead-follow dance, not a lead-lead dance. However, if someone can explain how this works, or if someone has experience of this, I'm prepared to have an open mind on the topic.

Well, "open" by my standards.
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So the Vin Diesel System isnt good enough for you then?
 
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Dave Bailey said:
From what I know, the whole "danced by two equally active dancers" concept doesn't really work. It's a lead-follow dance, not a lead-lead dance. However, if someone can explain how this works, or if someone has experience of this, I'm prepared to have an open mind on the topic.
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I don't dance tango, but I find when doing ballroom standard with a partner skilled in the mechanics of the dance that its sometimes possible to get into a mutually sensitive enough state to be very infleunceable, to the point where its not always clear who originated everything that happens.

This seems to require both dancers to be very comfortable and capable in the moment despite the future being unknown, to be able to read subtle changes of body position or energy that suggest but don't fully require one of the roads at each decision fork, etc.

Another way of looking at it is that a good leader will be poised to take suggestions from the music and openings of space on the floor. No reason he can't also be receptive to influence from a partner, too.
 
Chris Stratton said:
I don't dance tango, but I find when doing ballroom standard with a partner skilled in the mechanics of the dance that its sometimes possible to get into a mutually sensitive enough state to be very infleunceable, to the point where its not always clear who originated everything that happens.

This seems to require both dancers to be very comfortable and capable in the moment despite the future being unknown, to be able to read subtle changes of body position or energy that suggest but don't fully require one of the roads at each decision fork, etc.

Another way of looking at it is that a good leader will be poised to take suggestions from the music and openings of space on the floor. No reason he can't also be receptive to influence from a partner, too.
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Yes I agree, in both ballroom and tango.
In Tango it becomes quite obvious, often in retrospect, that the dance you've just had was influenced (hopefully for the good, but not always) by your partner.

But that isn't what David is asking as he's talking about a positive taking over of the lead by the lady. It happens and it's different.
 
Yes, that works too. But if the leader was leading less than absolutely, at some point of development the takeover could be less than absolute, too.
 
JohnEm said:
Yes I agree, in both ballroom and tango.
In Tango it becomes quite obvious, often in retrospect, that the dance you've just had was influenced (hopefully for the good, but not always) by your partner.
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Yes.

JohnEm said:
But that isn't what David is asking as he's talking about a positive taking over of the lead by the lady. It happens and it's different.
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Yes - assuming that's what this system entails. But I'd still like to hear from someone who's experienced the system?
 
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