Don't impress her with your fancy steps! Impress her with your...

...movement from the soul!

I've recently had a leg injury. Because of that, I've had the opportunity to watch people at milongas. In the process, I once again see behavior that really rubs me wrong.

Here's the scenario:

A leader asks a [seemingly] beginner lady to dance a tanda. He then starts to lay on the fancy steps. The dance falls apart. Not because she doesn't know what to do, but rather, he leads it badly! Apparently, leader is a newbie, trying to compensate for some inadequacy. Anyway, he then tries to teach her the move that he's trying to do, in the middle of the dance floor, holding up traffic...

This makes for a very looong tanda. Not to mention, it is VERY, VERY, VERY rude to teach in a milonga. You just don't do that! A well meaning criticism can be very devastating and humiliating to a follow.

Seeing the follow, I dance with her. I keep it simple. SHE CAN DANCE! Not technically astute, but she is able to achieve that "Tango connection," which is the whole point of AT. After the tanda, she tells me "Thank you, I feel so much better with you than with that other guy."

My curiosity is piqued and I ask her, "Why?"

Ampster embarks on a small research project...



(This scenario is repeated in several milongas. There's always at least one lead who does this sort of thing)



The consistent answer is that, to the majority of ladies, it is the "Tango Connection" that makes the dance worthwhile.

Only the advanced dancers are the ones who can do (sometimes enjoy) the fancy stuff. For it to be enjoyable, you have to lead it well.

So, my conclusion is this:

Dance to the level of the follower. Don't try to push fancy steps if you can't lead it well, and if she's not comfortable with it. Keep it simple and concentrate on the connection.

Move her with your soul. Not your feet.

Well said.

The point I guess is that both should feel comfortable and enjoy what they are doing. Many people who are quite new to tango do like experimenting with difficult steps, and if they both enjoy it (and they're not too much in the way) then that's OK too.

Wow Ampster you have an injured leg and you can lead a beginner lady. Wow.

Amen. Thank you. A million times, thank you.

Particularly after this past weekend...THANK YOU!!!!!

You got to dance with Ampster?

I wish.

Nah. Thanks for saying that. There are a couple of guys I know who fall into the pattern he described. I managed to avoid one this weekend, the other I didn't know to avoid. Completely miserable tanda. But the thing is, I'm on friendly terms with them and like them personally, so turning them down is...sticky.

Ok leaders, let's all break one of our legs.

Peaches said:

I wish.

Nah. Thanks for saying that. There are a couple of guys I know who fall into the pattern he described. I managed to avoid one this weekend, the other I didn't know to avoid. Completely miserable tanda. But the thing is, I'm on friendly terms with them and like them personally, so turning them down is...sticky.

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I was once on friendly terms with a boyfriend I was seeing at the time. When I told my girlfriends that I always faked, one piped up rather loudly and whooped with horror, "Fake? A woman should never fake. How on earth then does the bloke know where he's going wrong". She was right of course. So huns, dance with the nice man, however, do tell him where it is that you feel he is going wrong. It is his right that he knows then and only then can he improve.

Ampster said:

A leader asks a [seemingly] beginner lady to dance a tanda. He then starts to lay on the fancy steps. The dance falls apart. Not because she doesn't know what to do, but rather, he leads it badly! Apparently, leader is a newbie, trying to compensate for some inadequacy. Anyway, he then tries to teach her the move that he's trying to do, in the middle of the dance floor, holding up traffic...

....

The consistent answer is that, to the majority of ladies, it is the "Tango Connection" that makes the dance worthwhile.
...

So, my conclusion is this:

Dance to the level of the follower. Don't try to push fancy steps if you can't lead it well, and if she's not comfortable with it. Keep it simple and concentrate on the connection.

Move her with your soul. Not your feet.

Click to expand...

this definitely carries over to ballroom -- it is very, very common. even my amateur practice partner would do this, and there's a very experienced pre-champ amateur i know who can't do anything but this at socials. neither of them are beginners, but they aren't leading well, and the dance just deteriorates into chaos and i leave the floor in those situations feeling only stress and frustration.

if only they would heed my constant mantra of "please, just stick to basic for awhile!" something simple danced with good technique & wonderful connection is so satisfying...

i bet this dynamic exists in every form of partner dancing, ampster. :sigh:

Heather2007 said:

I was once on friendly terms with a boyfriend I was seeing at the time. When I told my girlfriends that I always faked, one piped up rather loudly and whooped with horror, "Fake? A woman should never fake. How on earth then does the bloke know where he's going wrong". She was right of course. So huns, dance with the nice man, however, do tell him where it is that you feel he is going wrong. It is his right that he knows then and only then can he improve.

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Gotta disagree. If it were a practica, I'd speak up. If he asked, I'd speak up. At a milonga...not my place.

Peaches said:

Gotta disagree. If it were a practica, I'd speak up. If he asked, I'd speak up. At a milonga...not my place.

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Yes but, Leads are quick to do so with Followers. I have often given advice to a lead (and a follower) and likewise I have often received it which I am always open to. It depends on the tone and how it is addressed. I tend to start with "...that was nice but, here's a tip and I think it would feel good for both of us if...".

That said, if it is easier for you to suffer than to offer then it is certainly not my place to say otherwise.

Obviously there is ettiquette in every form of dance, but I find the "what do do or not do at a milonga" in tango to be a bit opaque. Not all of us have the luxury of time to go to practicas as well as the occasional milonga, and I don't understand why people just can't be normal. Once at a milonga, the leader was trying to make me do something and I had no idea what. So when we came to the next grinding halt I asked something like, "what is it that I am supposed to be doing when you do that lead?" He just shrugged and didn't even bother to answer or show me, I felt pretty bad like it wasn't worth the time and effort even though I am a decent dancer (just don't know all the fancy steps). I'm not saying that he should have stopped everything and shown me, but even saying something like "oh, that was a [ ]" wouldn't have killed him.

Heather2007 said:

Yes but, Leads are quick to do so with Followers.

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And just because other people have bad manners is not license for me to have bad manners, as well.

That said, if it is easier for you to suffer than to offer then it is certainly not my place to say otherwise.

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Not so much a question of suffering, a question of being polite. If I'm injured, or in danger of it, I speak up. But teaching on the dance floor is generally considered a pretty severe breach of etiquette, and just because others do it does not mean that I will. Besides, with only 2 years experience, and only as a follower, I have no real standing to go around correcting people.

Heather2007 said:

I was once on friendly terms with a boyfriend I was seeing at the time. When I told my girlfriends that I always faked, one piped up rather loudly and whooped with horror, "Fake? A woman should never fake. How on earth then does the bloke know where he's going wrong". She was right of course. So huns, dance with the nice man, however, do tell him where it is that you feel he is going wrong. It is his right that he knows then and only then can he improve.

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As a leader, I appreciate getting constructive feedback at a milonga on what I did wrong (or could improve on). It's much prefered to just a "thank you" with no clue about what you didn't like.

The only time I ever got feedback that wasn't particularly helpful was at a class where I was struggling with a new step they were teaching, when my partner said, "You need to have a more motion fluid when you do that".

Peaches said:

And just because other people have bad manners is not license for me to have bad manners, as well.

Not so much a question of suffering, a question of being polite. If I'm injured, or in danger of it, I speak up. But teaching on the dance floor is generally considered a pretty severe breach of etiquette, and just because others do it does not mean that I will. Besides, with only 2 years experience, and only as a follower, I have no real standing to go around correcting people.

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Giving one advice in a kindly tone is certainly not akin to being ill-mannered. They are those that are brutish in manner, tone, gesture yes, and I would certainly not advise anyone adopt same, but a kindly word is okay. Woe is the ego then if the recipent of such kindly advice chooses to construe it as anything but.

Lastly, that you have only (sic) two years experience certainly does not mean you are any less qualified to advise than another with, say, 10 years under their belt. My sister once remarked how much her 7 year old has taught her much about life and living. And so it is often times the novices from whom we learn the most important lessons.