Ballroom Dance > 2007 Collegiate Nationals

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by FlippySmith, Nov 19, 2007.

  1. FlippySmith

    FlippySmith New Member

    Hi all,

    We went to the Ohio Star Ball this year as well as competing at the Collegiate Nationals for the first time.

    For us, it felt a little awkward and we noticed an anomaly in the judging. We somehow received 11 out of 21 possible recalls in novice smooth even though we missed the event. We were not sure if the is an error owing to the PDA system or the fact that there 16 smooth couples on the floor an the judges were simply clicking familiar numbers from Gold smooth.

    We were interested in others' opinions of the Collegiate Nationals this year. While we enjoyed the Pro shows, we're not sure about attending the collegiate portion again.
  2. Donchik

    Donchik New Member

    What college are you with?
  3. xxtupikxx

    xxtupikxx Member

    I agree that the judging was a bit uneven. The couple in front of me made gold standard final but failed to make a cut in silver standard! I also thought the enforcement of costume regulations was over zealous and the enforcement of adhering to syllabus was seeminly non existent.
  4. ACtenDance

    ACtenDance Active Member

    That happens all the time.
  5. Costume rules are similar for MAC and other events.

    Its wonderful to dress up for the competitions, and much can be done with out costumes. By not allowing costumes, the students can focus on their technique, and the most important aspects of ballroom dancing. Otherwise I can see couples fretting over the decision to spend money on lessons or buy a $$$ costume. A costume does you no good if your technique is weak.

    I can't say I saw much that was odd in the way of the judges marks. Remember that a judge has roughly 15 seconds to watch you in a semi-final round (much less in quarters). So if the 15 seconds they see of you are worse than the 15 seconds they see of another couple, the other couple will make the cut. Remember that judging starts before you even step on the floor. Its not just based on technical ability, but on musicality, floorcraft, appearance, presence on the floor, and more.

    I do have to agree that the judges did seem to miss a lot of out-of-syllabus moves, but I also didn't see many judges and it looked they were in short supply. Remember that you can alert the judges to these actions so that they can more easily identify the couples and take the necessary actions.
  6. lupeok

    lupeok New Member

    I'm flippysmith's partner (long time reader, first time poster!) and we were with NYU. I thought it was funny to be one recall away from being called back in an event we didn't dance - wish every comp was that easy! ;)
  7. Chris Stratton

    Chris Stratton New Member

    You really aren't supposed to be talking to the judges at a competition at all, and even in looser settings, at the very least not while they are working.

    One of the issues with a competition like this is that there isn't a designated invigilator to enforce the restrictions; this is not technically a job of ordinary judges. (Can actually recall a case of a judge marking a couple well but also reporting their violations to competition officials)
  8. Ok, alert the COJ?
  9. Another Elizabeth

    Another Elizabeth Active Member

    As a scrutineer, I can tell you this happens all the time. I pass sheets on to the Chairman of Judges when I see notations of syllabus violations (generally after entering the marks - I do those sheets first so I can hand them over).
  10. xxtupikxx

    xxtupikxx Member

    If the judges could see past the costumes and judge people on technique, then the costume regulation would become unnecessary. The existence of such regulations simply confirms that dancesport is part "beauty pageant".
  11. kimV6

    kimV6 New Member

    the costume regulation was definitely uneven; there were a few blatant violations even in bronze that weren't called, yet the entire gold standard final was called aside after we got our awards to get yelled at, though only half of the finalists had minor violations (to be fair, we weren't one of them :p )
    the one thing i wasn't happy with was the putting 24 couples on the floor at a time in the afternoon sessions to save time, especially in standard for standard and up. i understand the need to be on schedule, but i feel then that we could have done without some of the fun dances, which take up a huge degree of time. plus they're expendable, as evidenced by the fact that two were cut due to the fact that the judges had to leave to make their flights. i felt bad for the judges who certainly had a harder time distinguishing couples in the earlier rounds. otherwise i thought the comp was well-run, and the judging was pretty fair.
  12. This year was my second time at collegiate nationals-- it felt a lot like last year. The judges occasionally had PDA problems and there were more music stops and then "lets have a few more seconds of waltz out there" than normally occurs. I like the PDA check in system, and would have preferred that whoever was putting in the names of the heats had labelled them correctly (the heat #s were correct but often did not correspond to the actual event or dance style). My team thought that the costume enforcement was pretty lax as there were definitely costumes on the floor during syllabus (eg newcomer-- fluorescent lime green open back in latin). [We did hear that costume regs will be strictly enforced at MAC as they will also do for nationals in April.]

    I thought there was a fair amount of ppl "dancing down"- some newcomers did not look at all like newcomers, and a lot of ppl dancing multiple levels of the same event which we had forgotten that you could do at this comp. I did not like that they changed the order of events to newcomer interleaved w/ silver and the bronze w/ gold-- it meant that we had to throw our newcomers into the mix without having time to get them settled down and properly made up etc (most of the bronze ppl are familiar w/ the routine and don't need makeup/hair help).

    We would have liked it if they hadn't done the public scoring for team matches- soooo much time (for those of you who weren't there, they called each couple forward and read out their 2 scores, it took forever and a day.)

    I think the organization was fine considering the size of the rounds (>100 for newcomer/bronze), the announcing was occasionally funny, we thought the harry potter formation had great design and execution and none of the terrible jarring musical edits so common in that event.

    unrelated to the actual competition, for ppl who live >5hrs away, I would highly recommend flying over driving, as our team is located in PHL and didn't get back until after 3am this morning despite the usual competition weekend sleep deprivation.
  13. kimV6

    kimV6 New Member

    that part was actually the most frustrating. for the last two years, we've had to miss the team match because it's always the last thing on day 2, and we'd rather start our 8 hour bus ride back than stay for a team match. finally we got to compete in one, and we were very certain we'd do well, when we find out that it wouldn't be like a team match at all, but rather a "dancing with the stars" style competition that happened to be in teams. our team just stared at each other open-mouthed when we saw this. it was silly and almost degrading; what if you were the only couple to get a 6, and everybody knew it? add on to that the fact that each heat was taking upwards of 5 minutes, our team decided that eating and going to OSB upstairs was way more important than an embarrassing ridiculous competition, and scratched. that was the most disappointing part of ohio for me.
  14. IlyZislin

    IlyZislin Active Member

    I am going to avoid commenting on the costumes :)

    As for syllabus enforcement, I can tell you that there were major efforts to enforce things. Couples *were* disqualified. The issue is that even with a dedicated invigulator (which the comp did not have) - when there are 20+ couples on the floor if someone breaks the rules for 5 seconds, it most likely will get unnoticed. My advice would be to go and talk to the Chairmen of Judges and point out specific things that a specific couple was doing, and then that couple will be watched specifically.
  15. IlyZislin

    IlyZislin Active Member

    Mark Tabor sometimes steps by DF - maybe he can explain the anomalies...
  16. IlyZislin

    IlyZislin Active Member

    1) You can and definitely should alert the Chairman (woman) of Judges - that is part of his / her job.

    2) Believe it or not, some of the violations were so bad at this comp that ordinary judges DID come up to the CoJ and altered her. but yea... dedicated invigilator would be nice
  17. IlyZislin

    IlyZislin Active Member

    wow - open scoring... holy mother... I wasn't there for that. Did they really do that? How long did it take, and did newbies cry? :(
  18. xxtupikxx

    xxtupikxx Member

    In part the inconsistency in syllabus and costume enforcement comes from having an unclear policy? For example, at this comp there was a number of disqualification for having wrist flyers in standard/smooth costumes, a rule i had never seen in writing.
  19. IlyZislin

    IlyZislin Active Member

    Did they actually DQ people or just warn them? (I don't know much about costume rules)

    As for the syllabus enforcement. In my mind, everything falls into two categories: international and american. This is only because in International there is (for the most part) only one syllabus used (ISTD). However, in American there are multiple syllabi and it is very hard (and in my opinion unfair) to enforce one particular one, because what if some team/studio teach a different one? Are they "breaking the rules"? I actually asked Ester Don about this at NCC and she said she knows of NINE American style syllabi... oy...
  20. FlippySmith

    FlippySmith New Member

    After I thought about it, it was nice to have newcomer/silver and bronze/gold interweaved. It's great if you're dancing multiple levels. Otherwise I can see how it would be quite annoying though.

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