Ballroom Dance > Amateur teachers

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by billman, Jun 27, 2014.

  1. snapdancer

    snapdancer Well-Known Member

    Maybe a few ballroom students who teach West Coast or other club dances?
  2. JudeMorrigan

    JudeMorrigan Well-Known Member

    Argentine and some country western too, I imagine. I'd expect westies and salsa dancers to be the most frequently impacted though. I'm just spit-balling when I say that though.
    Larinda McRaven likes this.
  3. debmc

    debmc Well-Known Member

    I think this will be hard to enforce. Who would tell if they knew a pro am student out there is also teaching west coast or salsa?
  4. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    Do we get a Scrutineer to decide if the steps being taught are okay?

    Seems very non-specific. Ballet and everything under the sun is used in theater arts and showcase divisions. Besides this....

    On2 salsa as far as I know is not in NDCA competitions. The style of West Coast swing that is used in WCS only comps is different than that found in NDCA comps. The Boston and Bebop at Vietnamese studios are Waltz and Swing like. There is the Taiwanese Tango and Jitterbug danced by thousands in the US. Is South Carolina Shag considered swing? Lindy Hop? Balboa? Blues?

    What if tomorrow there is a Carolina Shag event at an NDCA event? Is there an alert system?
  5. debmc

    debmc Well-Known Member

    Yep. If I'm competing against a former ballerina or current dance studio owner, I find that much tougher competition. At a certain point it does have to just be about individual progress because there are amazing students in ballroom who have extensive dance training prior to ballroom and many with unique advantages.
  6. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    But there is no "LA1 Pre-Bronze Ballet" division at an NDCA competiton.

    I think if I took Ben Morris out on the pro-am floor, or Jefferson Benjumea... and stuck them in a GA1 Silver WCS or Salsa heat... it doesn't matter that their WCS or Salsa looks different than would be pretty unfair even though they are not "ballroom teachers".
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
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  7. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    Lots of people... you have no idea how many people get turned in... or used to anyway. I think perhaps it has died down a bit from 6 years ago when the rule first went into effect.
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  8. rels77

    rels77 Active Member

    It drives me crazy when I dance in A and I see a bunch of 24 years olds in my closed scholarships who I know are beginner teachers dancing with their mentor pros. I remember one year at USDC a girl who had been dancing pro-am bronze the year before with her "teacher" was in rising star pro with that same pro... Her partner.
    s2k likes this.
  9. RiseNFall

    RiseNFall Well-Known Member

    I don't see why anybody should have any qualms about turning somebody in who violates, but the above scenario does not mean that any rules were broken. Somebody doesn't have to be teaching to dance pro.
  10. rels77

    rels77 Active Member

    She was a teacher. A beginning teacher at their studio. Getting "experience" in pro-am.
    s2k likes this.
  11. RiseNFall

    RiseNFall Well-Known Member

    Dear me. Yeah, that would irk me.

    Are most people in the industry OK with this??? I would think that flouting the rules like that would have repercussions even if you aren't reported for it.
  12. s2k

    s2k Well-Known Member

    Personally, I'm glad to see this amendment. I've posted before that I'm irked by the lack of semantics over what constitutes a "pro" and what constitutes an "am." I wish USA Dance would do this... especially since they're attempting to create a professional division.

    I no longer dance pro-am, but for the sake of argument: there's a pro-am dancer in my area who is lovely, and she wins... but last year she started teaching at that studio, alongside her pro. She shouldn't be dancing "pro-am" anymore. So if she and I are at a comp, and we're both dancing Ladies' A silver scholarship I'm not really dancing against another student at that level. In my mind, if you're good enough to be teaching (whatever skill you're teaching), you should not be competing against people who are probably below you in skill level. So it looks like the NDCA is looking to curb this practice.

    CAVEAT: this idea/situation/whatever is not on my mind. I pay it no mind in real life. I comment on it when it crosses into my feed, but that's about it. So please don't think I'm all giving this mental energy beyond these typed words. :)
    Loki likes this.
  13. RiseNFall

    RiseNFall Well-Known Member

    I'm going to repeat my question about how doing this is regarded, particularly by other professionals in the industry. There are, of course, some pro-am students who are better-at-the-moment than some some professional dancers; their actual dancing is beside the point as far as I'm concerned. How come people allow it? If @s2k knows it's happening, I would think a lot of other people would as well.

    MY CAVEAT: When I think about my placement at a competition, I think of it loosely in bands: somewhere in the middle, top three, towards the bottom (expected at times :)). There are not likely (I hope, at any rate) enough people violating the no-teaching rule to have much of an impact my general placing.
  14. bia

    bia Well-Known Member

    I don't dance pro-am, so I have no horse in this race, but as a matter of principle, I'd rather have a proficiency system based on results than a no-teaching-at-all rule. Because there are so very many people who do some teaching and are nowhere near plausible as pros. For example, I do a little teaching for the collegiate ballroom club I advise (we're 1 1/2 hours from the nearest studio and the club is not flush with money, so we rarely get a pro), but I'm very much a syllabus-level dancer. For even more of an example, most of the teaching for the club is by students. Within a studio, I would expect trainee teachers to improve faster than non-teacher students, but plenty of them start without much experience. So, no, they shouldn't be competing at the same level that they teach, but if they teach bronze and compete gold, and that's the level their dancing skill would put them, I don't have a problem with it.

    That said, same caveat as s2k. And it's clear that the NDCA isn't looking to change their policy in this way, whatever I may think. And this isn't to claim that instituting a proficiency system is simple. (I don't know or really care what the problem was with USA Dance's latest effort, though if/when they try again, I'll care.)
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  15. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    Maybe, but BenMo is clearly a pro. More likely the issue would be one of his students who assisted in a class, but has never competed in ballroom.
  16. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    Ben is not a professional in the NDCA ballroom world. Just I am not a pro in the WCS world. This is NOT about being a pro anything. But he does TEACH so therefore he cannot be a "pro-am STUDENT dancer".

    Assisting a class is no big deal. Teaching is the issue.

    Someone that clearly is teaching anchor steps and pivots, and weighted connection and rolling through the foot.... in partner dances that are available at the NDCA competitions is the target of this addition to the rule. A person who is a TEACHER of west coast swing can not dance as a STUDENT in a teacher/student division.

    (Regardless of whether their dancing looks like a ballroom wcs.)

    This is not a hard concept.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2017
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  17. Dancing Irishman

    Dancing Irishman Well-Known Member

    But...ballroom dancers like making walking hard, so we should make rules hard too!
    Loki likes this.

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