Tango Argentino > Been Diss'ed?

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by AndaBien, Mar 24, 2013.

  1. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    I admit I am ignorant in many ways, and, however I only speak about my experience, some of my words may come across as dismissive. Please show me my statement(s) where I am dishonest and blame the victims?
    Also, I wonder, why did you change your photo from the one that was your face to something anonymous?
     
  2. Oliver

    Oliver Member

     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
  3. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    Those are questions, not statements, for one thing.
     
  4. Oliver

    Oliver Member

    There are two statements and two questions.
     
  5. Just found it on Facebook:
    pseudo-cabeceos.jpg
     
    Oliver likes this.
  6. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    Two questions, a doubt and a supposition.
     
  7. itwillhappen

    itwillhappen Active Member

    In doubt I suppose that tango is not a perfect world, including discrimination, alcoholism, all these things. But maybe that sexual harassment is not the predominant problem, at least not in this study with 1300 people participating in Argentina.
    http://tangoclay.us/pdf-tc/Report 2014.pdf

     
  8. sixela

    sixela Well-Known Member

    You changed it back to that subject all right. Personally, I find it off-topic.

    No, I was merely trying to explain why you were misreading here. Since she liked my post, I can only infer that perhaps I'm reading it the way she intended it to be read?

    You're unnecessarily adversorial and are attributing intent at any corner, just in an attempt to be right all the time. Time for me to simply ignore you, since you're only interested in peddling your own point of view; the only reason you seem to be reading others' post is to find something you can misconstrue to feel offended in order to push your own point of view.

    You can stay on your high horse as long as you want to. I'm no longer going to humour you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  9. TomTango

    TomTango Active Member

    Handling being harassed in a straightforward and upfront way - either reporting it to the organizer or telling off the perpetrator - seems easy in theory, but it's actually very hard in practice. I think it's similar to saying no to someone who verbally asks you to dance. Some people have no problem with it, but a lot of people would rather say "yes" than hurt someone's feelings or make a scene.

    Like Oliver said, most harassment is subtle, just low-key enough to not be seen by anyone else, that reporting it to the organizer makes you feel silly. And if you did report it, what then? They'd probably get a warning, and anyone who heard might think you over-reacted, or couldn't take a joke. Now maybe they would and maybe you wouldn't, but it's just an example of the mental gymnastics one would go through to avoid confrontation.

    It doesn't warrant going to another milonga, but the comments nag at you, and you don't have any good dances for the rest of the night.
     
    Oliver likes this.
  10. sixela

    sixela Well-Known Member

    Ah, that feels a lot better.
     
  11. newbie

    newbie Well-Known Member

    At Thursday class, my partner was late (as she usually is). Some terrible follower (but hey, she takes privates with the teacher, that grants her a slot in this labelled "advanced" class) came to me.
    'Let's warm up".
    While definitely not wanting to, I felt unable to just say no and remain there doing nothing while most people were dancing. As expected, there followed a couple of terrible minutes until partner finally came and oh-so-slowly put on her shoes.
    "End of warm-up" I said.

    It's a class where most people have regular/favourite partners, but nevertheless we trade a lot and everybody dances with everybody.
    At some point the teacher announced "Everybody back to one's initial partner". He does that twice or thrice usually, so that despite also dancing with random partners we still dance significantly more often with our preferred one.

    As I happened to be already with my regular partner, we did not move. And we saw the terrible follower coming to us.
    "I was your initial partner today!"
    This time I was more assertive.
    "No you were not. She is. You were initial, that's all."
     
  12. itwillhappen

    itwillhappen Active Member

    If I get knowledge of such a complaint - knowing not much about the guy, the lady and the situation - should I invite her in the near future? What if she's really hypersensitive or exaggerating? Everyone can see how I dance with my SO ... zero distance embrace opened for sacadas with slowly unwrapped ganchos and so on...
     
  13. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    Let's keep the "people like you" personal attacks off this board. Tone down the aggression and snapping.



    Each dance genre has their own code and ethics. Ballroom, WCS, Lindy, AT...and each of those genres has had their share of breaches. Yet individuals see situations differently, even the exact same situation. Some of these situations have gathered immense attention recently, opening our eyes to things we prefer to not see. Sometimes it takes a big blow up of a situation to make everyone aware of the small breaches that happen constantly yet are ignored and tolerated because they dance genre itself is more forgiving.

    So agree to disagree about the specifics, nicely. But I think we ALL agree that keeping women (and men) safe should be of utmost priority to all of us. Belittling or dismissing anyone's feelings of bein violated, even minor offenses, should be a no-no in life.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
  14. newbie

    newbie Well-Known Member

    What I think is that a mod should just do that: mod. And not express strong opinions. Especially in the very same post.
     
  15. TomTango

    TomTango Active Member

    I swear there is a time dilation effect when partners put on shoes when you really need them.
     
  16. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    That is why the first line is is separate. That is the mod line.

    The rest of it is an opinion... just as valid, and no more out of place, than yours. And if your opinion is different than mine, that we should be mindful of belittling those that have been/feel violated, and you feel that is "too strong of an opinion" for a woman to have... then by all means... go for it. No one is stopping you from expressing opposition to that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
  17. koinzell

    koinzell Active Member

    I have a similar situation in my community. Do the predators you speak of also happen to be poor dancers? Every time a newcomer comes, we have a predator that likes to monopolize them, teach on the dance floor, etc. The thing is, he's so socially awkward and autistic that one would not even fathom that he's a predator. And my community is rather small, local milongas usually have an attendance of 20 or less so it's impossible to avoid him. Nobody really enjoys dancing with him, they just do it to be nice. I believe that these low key predators are the most dangerous kind, a cancer that is truly difficult to expel.

    Yep. That's the way it should be.
     
  18. Oliver

    Oliver Member

    I've observed and heard about that kind more than a couple times. And yeah, if people decide to talk with the person and/or eventually shun them, then it does cause ripples in the community, because people start to choose sides.

    The kind I'm personally more wary of (though it's rarer) is the really like-able predator. They make lots of friends and do favors for all the right people, so you can't really get rid of them without completely destroying the community.
     
  19. JTh

    JTh Member

    Not sure I agree with you in full. You can have a good open embrace AT dance as well, and body parts other than hands don't need to touch.
    However....I love the closed embrace...I find that the two are much more in synch in closed ( or greater chances of -ie she can feel weight transfer better etc)...
     
  20. JTh

    JTh Member

    Cann
    Cannot take this personally.
    There could be many reasons why felines don't want a closed embrace or diss partners (for reasons men may not understand :)). Whatever the reason, it ofcourse must be respected and vice versa- there are times leaders don't want close embrace or to dance with certain followers.
    I know one follower that refuses to go anywhere near a leader (it's as open as open can be in the embrace - running out of arm length-exceedimgly tough yo dance with her).
    I can tell you that I also do closed embrace and the majority of followers love it (yes, my chest is touching theirs and we are quite intimate -sometimes even when their husbands are there- I get along with them as well). I have had on many occasions my arms press their chests, etc..and have NEVER had any issues with it. In fact, I'd say they like it..but that's another story for another day.. :)
    Anyway, if you think it's not your dancing that's the issue, maybe it's something else...
    I am not an experienced dancer at all...but have had many dances and never been dissed (quite the opposite).. Some 'extras' to complement your dance techniques:
    1. Be presentable and we'll kept
    2. Smell nice
    3. Be friendly but not trying to pick up (of course not saying you do this)
    4. Humor..make them laugh and enjoy the experience.
    5. establish this off the dance floor as well.

    I have had followers weak in the knees, breathing heavily, sweaty etc only during my dance...irrespective of their marital status.
     

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