Tango Argentino > Cheapest private lessons in Europe?

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by Andreas Winsnes, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. sixela

    sixela Well-Known Member

    Either Vincenze is completely not joking, or he's been pulling our legs for quite some time (and providing us with what we merely think is unintended humour).

    Of course, some "crowded milonga floors" may only have five couples. If the average is two couples, three is a crowd.
  2. LadyLeader

    LadyLeader Active Member

    What kind of movements would you use instead on a truly crowded floor?
  3. Vincenze

    Vincenze Member

    Very boring movements. Rebounds, half turns...
    You should avoid super crowded establishments.

    This place would be much nicer if they took away the tables.

    This is a good video for slightly crowded milongas.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  4. sixela

    sixela Well-Known Member

    Perhaps _you_ should, but the generic "you" (including me) certainly neither has to avoid these nor has any instructions to get from you.

    I also disagree about whether or not the video is "a good video for slightly crowded milongas". Unless you have a very different definition about a "slightly crowded milonga" than I have.

    The Giant Side Step to the Centre (which invariably makes you bump into anyone in a lane more to the centre) is one of my pet peeves, especially when the couple is not angled to the outside of the dance floor. It's even worse than small back steps.
  5. c955

    c955 New Member

    I have to admit that I feel a bit bad that in a number of threads it sometimes seems to be Vincenze 'versus' many of the other posters and I attribute that mainly to a notable difference in culture or attitude pertinent to our local dance community, region, country or continent. I happen to disagree with several of Vincenze's posts because we have very different ideas about dancing tango, but I do accept he does what he does because that's what 'works' for him.

    A number of years back I met an Australian guy in BsAs; we were taking group classes together at El Beso, a very popular and well known milonga, famed for its small dancefloor and close embrace dancing. During the break while we were chatting, he said that he'd been dancing and teaching tango for a while, but when he returned home he doubted anyone was going to believe him that that's how they dance here. They'd all say "You're just trying to cop a feel!" ['Cop a feel' is slang for touching someone in a sexual way] :eek::D Their dance halls were typically enormous school gyms, packed with a dozen couples at most, so you could pretty much do what you liked, how you liked!
  6. Vincenze

    Vincenze Member

    I consider Leandro Oliver & Laila Rezk to be the best Argentinian tango teachers.
    I just laugh when somebody criticizes them above.

    Actually, when Leandro is in town, ladies occupy all private spots with him.

    I talked to Maxi Copello, another teacher whom I like very much.
    Maxi said that he dances only with the dancers of his level.
    Then I pointed to Leandro, how he dances with beautiful ladies at milongas.
    Maxi said, "I don't believe you. Leandro is the best. He can't do that!"

    Back to the critics. Leandro teaches that you must adjust to situations. If the floor is crowded, come closer. If there is a spot, add a fancy movement.
  7. itwillhappen

    itwillhappen Active Member

    Position yourself in front of a mirror, shake your body a bit, rate your attractivity. Is it really difficult to dance with someone of your level?
    Remember the last parties, rate your qualities as an empathic conversational partner. Is it really difficult to dance with someone of your level?
    Let someone take a clip of your dancing, let the ladies rate your abilities as a leader. Is it really difficult to dance with someone of your level?

    Hopefully is your life now a bit easier - enjoy it!
    Vincenze likes this.
  8. Vincenze

    Vincenze Member

    I go to tango classes with a beginner now.
    And I enjoy it.

    It's 10 times more difficult to dance with a partner who is a beginner. You have to move her stronger and more precisely.
    Only women want to dance with the most advanced leader, preferably, with Leandro Oliver.
  9. itwillhappen

    itwillhappen Active Member

    For me would it be equally imprortant that my partner enjoys it.
    But however, you both are at a simlar level if she enjoys it in a simlar fashion.
  10. Vincenze

    Vincenze Member

    I enjoy difficulties. When dancing is easy, it's no fun anymore.
    What could be more difficult than dancing with a lower-level lady when nobody else wants to dance with her?
  11. itwillhappen

    itwillhappen Active Member

    Dancing with a higher-level lady when everybody else wants to dance with her. ;)
    But I do not enjoy difficulites, I even avoid them - I enjoy it to dance harmonically, mostly at my level.
  12. Vincenze

    Vincenze Member

    Then you limit yourself to few partners.
    It's the same with a professional. She comes to a milonga, sits all night and waits when somebody of her level shows up.
  13. itwillhappen

    itwillhappen Active Member

    By no way - avoiding difficulites makes me a pleasant partner for the most.
  14. LadyLeader

    LadyLeader Active Member

    Last June i bought a private lesson to check if my dance is on track. It was. During that lesson he advised me to chose my partners with greater care. He is a local teacher and has seen me dancing several times with different partners. This advice started an arduous process which gave to me unexpected result.

    I didn't want to pick the skill development and level as the reason for choosing a dance partner. I have seen too many times that it leads to a dead end. After some time they do not have partners to dance with at local dance evenings. I didn't want that but a solution where I could go on dancing longer with a variety of partners locally.

    The musicality in our shared dance turned up as a better choice for me. I will find my musicall mates at different skill levels and we can together explore the songs for a long time coming! This forces me out of my default skill level of today and i must develop intuitive dance at several skill levels.

    I still do my technical training for clear and precise movements for the coming dances but it just provides the means for better expression for our musicality.
  15. itwillhappen

    itwillhappen Active Member

    I think the cheapest lesson is the one that I can omit.
    And the most expensive is the one that I do not enjoy.

    I feel no oblitation to improve my dance a lot. To whom should I be obligated - except me?
    My SO likes to dance with me - taking private lessons is more like a wellness event.

    And the teacher that we choosed applies a quite traditional role concept.
    At a milonga there is only that tanda at the evening, the one and only chance to enjoy each other in the dance, in the music.
    There's nothing to show to the outside, nothing to talk about afterwards, nothing to proove, nothing to develop, nothing else.
  16. LadyLeader

    LadyLeader Active Member

    itwillhappen I understand the point of total focusing on your partner without any distracting thoughts of the look of the steps but i feel that the look is an important part in the development of your tango.

    IMO i develope the core of my dance in the abrazo. It is a nearly invisibly part of my dance where the movements are initiated, how my precense is, how i receive the follower as well as how much freedom i can provide her during a tanda among other things.

    But my dance has a surface too and that surface must express tango even if the onlooker turns off the sound on the video player. We use hours to develop the core and the surface to match the tradition of tango. Even those who are creating new versions of tango must have enough connection to the tradition otherwise they are creating something totaly new and must leave the tango frame.

    These thoughts came to me last summer when some followers were shocked after the first song with me. They didn't have expected a dance like that from me. With other words my core and surface were too far from each other making it impossible for them to get an realistic idea about a tanda with me. These followers were lovely to dance with and therefore I need to modify my surface, I need to modify the outlook of my dance to attract the followers I would love to dance with!
  17. itwillhappen

    itwillhappen Active Member

    My "nothing to show to the outside" was misleading.
    I meant "nothing additionally", dancing is moving and that should be gracefully, no question.

    There are great occasions for bodywork, awareness and all kind of partner exercises, like this one:

    Really nice activites, I like that, but I strictly divide learning tango from dancing tango.
    My tanda at a milonga is just "best effort", shall have no further goal than to enjoy that.
    Mladenac likes this.
  18. sixela

    sixela Well-Known Member

    Indeed he does. But in the video you post, there is no one to adjust for, and so he doesn't. My bone of contention is not with _him_ but how _you_ characterise the video as "this is a good video for slightly crowded milongas." A good video for exactly _that_ would demonstrate exactly what they do to adjust to smaller spaces.
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  19. sixela

    sixela Well-Known Member

    If it works for him then it is neither universal (despite his protestations and his constant nagging about how the generic you "must" do this or that) nor is there any proof that it's optimal even for him. And in some of his claims, it's quite obvious that it is also not working for him but that he would rather rationalise the cognitive dissonance away than consider alternatives.

    I bet the constant name dropping invariably followed by what we see as a complete misconstruing of the argumentation of the authorities he appeals to isn't making him many friends either. Even when you are handed clay tablets from the sky, it's foolish to just assume that you can correctly interpret them. Especially when the mount you're standing on when they were handed to you is one illustrated well in a graphic┬░.

    Gosh, I'll try to remember next time I'm in the zone that I'm not having fun ;-).

    Feel free to make is as uneasy for you as you want -- just make sure that no one else suffers for it.

    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  20. sixela

    sixela Well-Known Member

    In the interest of poor innocent bystanders who might get the wrong impression: you do not have to move your follower. You have to lead her, and she has to move (together with you, but SHE IS NOT a piece of furniture that "needs to be moved").

    Oh, and you have to move WITH a partner who is not a beginner with even more precision. The only difference is that an experienced follower will correct any imprecision for you in order to make the dance more pleasurable for the both of you even if you're sloppy,

    In other words: dancing with a beginner will expose your flaws (of the generic you, not you personally, Vincenze) more clearly, but that doesn't mean you need to be more precise when dancing with them than when you're dancing with an accomplished partner.

    You need to be more precise _always_, only with a more experienced follower you might not _realise_ it; by being precise you will be injecting as little noise into your leading so she can concentrate on what you try to _express_ in the movement and respond to it (and be confident that you will understand that response).
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017

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