Tango Argentino > Connection -independent of skill level

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by JTh, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. twnkltoz

    twnkltoz Well-Known Member

    Ohhhh yeah. In class you kind of have to put up with it.
     
  2. Reuven Thetanguero

    Reuven Thetanguero Active Member

    I think the answer to your situation boils down to two issues: Lead and dancing chemistry. Let me explain...

    I have been dancing Argentine Tango for over 20 years. With some experienced ladies, even great instructors I do not connect well and consequently our dancing is never great. With other as experienced or even less experienced I have great connection. I call it dancing chemistry: it's a connection that has no explanation, and has nothing to do with knowledge or experience. Just like in relationship there is a either chemistry or there isn't. In that respect dancing is not different.

    If you notice that a good follower doesn't follow you well - it's your lead. It needs to be clear and strong. With such lead 99% will follow you.
     
  3. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Oh I thought you were talking about being out dancing socially. The dynamic in a class is totally different. For one thing, the followers are focusing on their learning, not necessarily on you or on making a great dance.

    I'd be interested in hearing what your experience is with these or other followers at the milonga
     
    Lilly_of_the_valley likes this.
  4. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    When you encounter that in class, you may use it to work on your own seduction skills. Try to make a follower who gave up on you and your connection (or never considered it in the first place) to change her attitude. ;)
     
    itwillhappen and JTh like this.
  5. JTh

    JTh Member

    Good point :) it's worked on by far the majority of the class...so my ego is bruised a bit with these... :)
     
  6. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    You know, if it worked with everyone every time the same way, life wouldn't be that interesting. :)
     
    JTh likes this.
  7. itwillhappen

    itwillhappen Active Member

    Go yourself to milongas - if you didn't do that yet.
    And then play back that feeling of instruction-independent leading in a connection to everyone.
     
  8. JTh

    JTh Member

    I haven't tried milongas yet.. But my powers are growing. I shall soon burn those dance floors :)
     
    cornutt likes this.
  9. itwillhappen

    itwillhappen Active Member

    I'm blessed with a follower that has a background in contact improvisation dancing. If I will open my arms - she will open her eyes and follow (my simple steps) w/o physical contact. (At least at the beginning - in such a freedom degree she'll try to get equitable lead sooner or later.)
    If I would put three fingers on her chest - don't know ... will have to try that.
    Maybe she follows on that triangle, may be she puts counter wise a triangle on my chest...

    My point: as long as the teacher is busy otherwise in a class situation, I have to be my own teacher.
    If a sequence works like a charm - I can dance different.
    If a sequence works not at all - I have to dance different!
    May be down to a pantomimic shift of weight.
     
  10. Loki

    Loki Well-Known Member

    I've experienced the same with a subset of follows and virtually every other lead in attendance has agreed they're a PITA to dance with.

    We just soldier through,let them do their thing and forget about it.

    I'm sure follows do the same when circumstances are reversed. <shrug>
     
  11. JTh

    JTh Member

    Yes, adaptability is important for the leader.
    Each follower will likely be at a different skill level and I always thought it's the job of the lead to quickly assess how this is going to go and adjust his dance accordingly.
     
  12. twnkltoz

    twnkltoz Well-Known Member

    That really applies to Milongas, not as much the learning environment where you have less control of what's going on. Start going out, at least to Practicas. That's where you really hone your lead.
     
  13. koinzell

    koinzell Active Member

    I believe there is a direct correlation with connection and charisma. No matter how good you are technically, I won't enjoy the dance if you seem like you have a poor attitude. I've danced with some very charming complete beginners that have wonderful embraces. It just happens naturally, you dance who you are! They know they make mistakes but continue to laugh and smile.
     
    LateToTheDance likes this.
  14. JTh

    JTh Member

    Yes so do I...absolutely there is a direct correlation . I haven't been dancing for that long, but am competent.
    It's thr charisma that I display in my dances that keep followers coming back for more:)..more than my technicalities of steps (which are decent at this stage but far from perfect).
    This was a central message in my posts above- that to a degree, doesn't matter even if you are a master of steps and technically brilliant.. But you must have the non functionals in the dance such as charisma etc to really connect...however...not to discount the technicalities.. A strong implementation of those is likely a must for that great dance.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2016
  15. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Hope you aren't missing an opportunity to experiment with apilado.
     
  16. Reuven Thetanguero

    Reuven Thetanguero Active Member

    What is Apilado?
     
  17. itwillhappen

    itwillhappen Active Member

    Oh - close embrace and apilado are the default for me, the best tradeoff in social dancing, but not the one and only pride of creation.
    And this blessed follower especially loves to influence the lead a bit or even a bit more, therefor apilado with its stable contact is suited quite well.
    In a class situation some ladies already have an "awakening experience" as soon as one dances somehow and does not only try to reproduce the steps...
     
  18. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Apilado Style - See Milonguero Style. The term Apilado can be interpreted loosely as “put yourself forward” for the leader or “lean towards the leader” for the follower, which describes the kind of close embrace used by the milongueros from the centre of Buenos Aires. As the dancers lean towards each other (more or less according to preference) they share a third axis, creating, vertically from the heels, a /\ formation in which the apex of the /\ corresponds to the upper part of both bodies where the couple are in contact. In addition the follower embraces the leader by putting her left arm around his neck towards his left shoulder.

    Milonguero Style - Term originally given by Europeans and some North Americans to the style of dancing in a very close embrace; (note that Cacho Dante, who along with Susana Miller was a popularizer of this style is on record saying that named it - SP) also referred to as confiteria style, club style, apilado style, etc. Usually used in the very crowded clubs frequented by singles in the center of Buenos Aires. Milonguero Style is danced in a very close embrace with full upper body contact, the partners leaning into each other (but never hanging on each other), and using simple walking and turning steps. This style relies on music of the more rhythmic type as characterized by orquestas like those of D'Arienzo or Tanturi.
     
    Reuven Thetanguero likes this.
  19. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    YES!
     
  20. itwillhappen

    itwillhappen Active Member

    I like it to give that a try. But such efforts will often fail if a lady is generally unhappy in tango with her partner, gender or hierarchy situation. I do not judge with this whether such a perception is well-founded and reasonable or not.
     

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