Tango Argentino > Forward Ochos...Heel or Toes first? This is the question..!

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by Chrisa Assis, Dec 20, 2016.

  1. newbie

    newbie Well-Known Member

    We might have found the reference follower who can solve the matter then. The one who does not sacrifice quantity to quality. Nor the other way.
    So, her forward ochos, always the same? In terms of impact.
     
  2. oldtangoguy

    oldtangoguy Active Member

    I'm sure you didn't mean to sound snarky. All she was saying is that she knows what she likes. Nothing more. And, of course her ochos are not always the same.
     
  3. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    OK, this peaked my curiosity. I started wondering, how many different colgadas are there? What I came up with:
    You can go clockwise or counterclockwise (2).
    The follower can be on either of two feet (2x2=4).
    There can be differing amounts of lean (I arbitrarily picked three amounts of lean: none, some, a lot (4x3=12).
    The lean can be in 3 different directions: back, left, and right, (12x3=36).

    Is this what you were referring to, with respect to different colgadas? Key point being, if I've missed something along the way about different colgadas, I'm all ears.

    FWIW, I know this doesn't have much to do with ochos, but I was curious about it.
     
  4. oldtangoguy

    oldtangoguy Active Member

    Colgada - Lean away from the center of the couple’s common axis.

    1. colgada can pivot CW, CCW, or not at all. (3)
    2. Follower can be on either foot (2), but the direction of her entry also makes a big difference. So the colgada can begin off a follow’s front, side or back open step, or off a front or back cross step. (5)
    3. Lead can step into the follow to initiate the colgada with a front step, a side step or a back step, (3) with either left or right foot (2).
    4. Follow can face toward partner, be at right angles left or right, or be facing away (doble frente) (4)
    And this of course doesn’t count anything for degree of lean etc.

    3x2x5x3x2x4=720

    Surely an overestimate, but who’s counting?

    Finally, with many of these, the lead can step into his partner to initiate the colgada, or he can lead her to step into him. This may not sound like a big deal, but it is at least for me. For example, one can lead a followers sacada, but rather than let her pass through to complete the sacada, the lead blocks her and pivots her into a colgada. So the 720 could be increased, but perhaps not doubled.

    And there are others which are less conventional, harder to describe, and are additive, not multiplicative. For example, lead the follow to step split weight, then step around her, say first taking follow's left foot with lead's left, stepping around to take follow's right with lead's right, then stepping out. The colgada can also go in the opposite direction. While lead is stepping around the follow, they are both well back weighted.

    For myself, I would say that I dance perhaps only 80 or so musically and intuitively enough so that I can lead them in a milonga (yes, ONLY when the floor permits!) rather than merely at a practica. If I have to think about it, I don't want to dance it in a milonga.
     
  5. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    OK, thanks. [​IMG]

    I had never considered that how you got into it, (or how you exited), made the colgada itself different. FWIW, I'm a firm believer that (pretty much) any step/move can come after any other step, assuming you know how to lead it, (obviously, some combinations are much easier to lead than others).

    FWIW, "close embrace colgadas", AKA single axis turns, work great in a crowded milonga, as you don't have to open the embrace to do them.
     
  6. oldtangoguy

    oldtangoguy Active Member

    Good point. I consider them to be different since the transitional dynamics at the very beginning of the colgada make a huge difference in my ability to lead them.

    No question about that.
     
  7. Reuven Thetanguero

    Reuven Thetanguero Active Member

    My head is spinning...
     
    oldtangoguy likes this.
  8. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    You're probably staying in the colgadas too long.

    [​IMG]

    :)
     
    oldtangoguy and itwillhappen like this.
  9. itwillhappen

    itwillhappen Active Member

    I don't know how others use videos, but for me is it a great tool. Other than in a mirror can I observe myself with time shift. And if I'm satisfied, then can I intensify my work on other topics.
    And of course are videos of teachers or performers a source of inspiration and variation for me. How it feels will get obvious the time I try to lead that new stuff, anyhow.

    BTW: It's interesting that teachers usually post videos of themselves - and not a before/after comparison of their students... :cool:
     

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