Ballroom Dance > NDCA Syllabus Online (not really)

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by DanceMentor, Mar 12, 2017.

  1. Dancing Irishman

    Dancing Irishman Well-Known Member

    Second that for my partner and I learning syllabus Latin.
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  2. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    My question to you is why not go direct to the source, ISTD, and learn from their videos?
  3. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    The international steps are available from multiple sources on YouTube, and manuals are also available. I believe an open syllabus allows more people to benefit from dancing, and promotes good business too. Learning a pattern is only the beginning.
    raindance likes this.
  4. Loki

    Loki Well-Known Member

    I've used the vids as a quick reference because the Gray Book is far from a quick read IMO.

    I buy DVIDA vids for more instructional material.
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  5. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    And no, I have not paid money to the NDCA recently. While steps are not open to the public, I assume the member list is published, so this is how you found that I am not currently registered? Anyways, I do hope they update the website, but maybe it is not a priority.
  6. flying_backwards

    flying_backwards Active Member

    Thank you for doing that.

    My partner and I, and our friends in class, have often exchanged links to those videos after class so we could better prepare for practice. We do also have shoe boxes full of DVDs. And we have highlighted, annotated and bookmarked little grey books. Because our time with our teacher is better spent on HOW to do the figures, than what the figures are. I love the plain vanilla "textbooky" NDCA YT videos because they are so boiled-down bare-bones. These videos combined with the book allow us to take responsibility for that part of our learning. There are so many aspects of technique for which we need our teachers there with us physically that we do not want to use a precious 45 minutes having them call out "forward side back" or "heeltoe toe toeheel." If we don't hit an alignment it is because we lack skill to execute our intention, not knowledge. YT will never replace teachers.

    OP: I do get that this thread is about smooth silver not being included. Sorry to go on a tangent. I just wanted to acknowledge the contribution for what was included.
    Larinda McRaven likes this.
  7. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    Yes, absolutely. The videos were well done. What better way to acknowledge that than to finish the project! :)
  8. Dancing Irishman

    Dancing Irishman Well-Known Member

    1) Not on youtube, that I could find. The NDCA channel was the first hit when I searched "ISTD Latin Syllabus" on youtube.
    2) Based on 1, I'm assuming I'd need to pay for them. Why do that when perfectly good references are there for free?
  9. flying_backwards

    flying_backwards Active Member

    Because those NDCA syllabus reference ones on YT are just the tip of the iceberg. Real instruction videos run thru each figure lots of times, once for the "Left foot forward, right foot to side, left foot back" call-out, once for the timing, once for the footwork, once for the body actions or partner positions, separately gent and lady and together, and with music. And there is discussion, or "Key Points". The NDCA syllabus on YT is just a dictionary of figure names with the figures danced once-only, in partner, as absolutely simply as possible to still be recognizable. Not just the tip of the iceberg but just the tip of the beak of the bird perched on the ice berg.

    Oh gosh - just realized you might have been joking. Sorry if I am over-answering. Hard to detect sarcasm in text. I do tend to take it all sooo seriously.
  10. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

  11. JudeMorrigan

    JudeMorrigan Well-Known Member

    Seriously though, my use case for them was less to *learn* things and more for "why is this thing we worked on during our last lesson not working? Oh, derp. I'm supposed to go outside partner here. That ... would make an awful lot of sense and is probably something I was told a half dozen times in the lesson." sort of stuff.

    Anyhoo, I just want to reiterate that I'm not looking for more stuff to be posted, just expressing gratitude for past efforts.
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  12. Purr

    Purr Well-Known Member

    Found this on another thread:

    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  13. snapdancer

    snapdancer Well-Known Member

    Thanks Purr. I did some Googling and YouTubing but was not able to find this information.

    It was suggested that if I want to know what these figures are, then I should book a lesson. Well, if wanted learn how to perform these figures then I would book a lesson (or more probably lots of lessons). But if I just want to know what it is, how to recognize it if someone else does it, I'm much less willing to shell out money. NDCA and USA Dance have the same rule. Rules should be clear. Not knowing what these figures are despite a treasure hunt for their definition, how do I or anyone else know that they aren't a different name for the same figure on some teaching video?

    I don't think the YouTube videos that NDCA has put out are giving away the store. No one is going to learn the figures demonstrated just from watching the videos. (Although some may try). And these organizations wouldn't have to create videos to explain their rules, some words sort of like what Mengu said could do the trick.
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  14. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    Words don't do justice... because as much as I appreciate Mengu's answer... it is inaccurate.

    And the Bronze and Silver written list, just as it is on the NDCA's website, is entirely sufficient ... for the intended audience... NDCA's competitors, who already know what the patterns are.

    And it isn't that the NDCA is afraid of giving the milk away to those that won't buy the cow. It is that why should they spend their money on producing videos, when there are already videos out there?! The project was finished when the bronze videos were produced. There was never a promise of more videos. There are already orgs and people and videos that share this info. There is no need for more.

    There may be a WANT for more (and free at that) but in reality that is not the NDCA's problem. If some want cheaper or free videos talk to DVIDA about posting all of their videos on YT. And if you won't fault Wayne for not doing it then don't fault the NDCA either.

    The NDCA list of patterns was simply meant for NDCA competitors. And certified NDCA professionals know what these patterns are. The list is just a reminder for them to stay in category. I am glad that other people find them helpful. But that is not enough reason for the NDCA to create more.

    And honestly seeing the attitude that somehow the NDCA owes everyone free videos, or they are a terrible organization if they don't, kinda makes me not want to advocate for another set produced. :( That is really a sh***y attitude. Geesh, just be happy that you have the bronze ones.... for free.

    (It is like I babysat my neighbor's dog for free and suddenly I am a terrible person for not opening a free doggy day care, in addition to running my full-time job. I can't even believe this part of the conversation.)
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  15. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    And ya wanna know what I always did for quick video refernce? I take my videos, from ISTD or DVIDA, or other old teaching orgs that made them, and I take quick video shots of my monitor (because I am too lazy to jump through hoops to convert them) showing the pattern once through. And then I file those videos bites away. When I need to be reminded of a pattern I just look up my own files.

    Or back when I was with Steve we made our own videos. We filmed ourselves doing the patterns. And we gave them to our students so they could learn their syllabus routines. And also so we didn't forget or morph a pattern into something by accident.

    Easy and fast. Problem solved.
  16. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    The NDCA has a significant impact on ballroom dancing in America. As a result they will be scrutinized. That is normal. Whether or not the owe anyone anything is neither here nor there.
  17. Purr

    Purr Well-Known Member

    I did a search on Bing, parameters were "Sitting Hen Horse Cart Dancesport". A link to the thread on Dance Forums came up. I found Mengu's post on the thread.
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
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  18. Purr

    Purr Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure I get the gist of what this thread is about, but I'm intrigued by the terms, and I always like learning new things.


    I found a video clip online which demonstrated horse and cart, sitting hen and pot stirrer which was informative. The clip was on The Dance Store Online. A link should pop up using the Bing search parameters I described earlier.
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
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  19. Loki

    Loki Well-Known Member

    Geez, why didn't I think of that? Phone record some short clips for fast personal reference. Have to see how the quality turns out.
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  20. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    Maybe the issue is that Organization X calls a certain pattern Move A, but Organization Y calls it Move B, and NDCA calls it Move C?
    middy and raindance like this.

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